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RE: james Allen - FAn - 04-04-2011
(04-04-2011, 15:50)Melif1 escribió:(29-03-2011, 15:34)maripi escribió: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/03/a-deep-dive-into-the-race-strategies-in-melbourne/
Alonso battles Petrov (Ferrari)
Massa and Alonso: Ferrari on the back foot
Testing had indicated that the Ferrari was the second fastest car behind the Red Bull, with Ferrari competitive on long runs. But in Melbourne the car proved to be harder on its tyres than its rivals and this pushed them down the road of having to stop three times. They will have to get on top of this problem quickly if they are to compete for the title this year.
Alonso started fifth on the grid, but lost four places at the start. He passed Rosberg and Massa and gained another place when Button was penalised for an illegal overtake. But the Ferrari was proving hard on its tyres and he suddenly lost performance around lap 10/11. He had to stop on lap 12, coming out behind Petrov. Despite his setback at the start he was in the hunt for a podium against Webber and Petrov, who was only going to stop twice. Normally when you have a bad start you try to stop less often than your rivals, to regain track position, but that wasn’t an option for Ferrari.
The three stopper did allow him to push hard in each stint and it got him ahead of Webber at the final stop.
Renault could see what Alonso was doing, but did not react and stuck to their plan to stop twice. Alonso pushed hard, closing the gap to Petrov to 19 seconds, when the Russian pitted for the second time on lap 36. Alonso’s plan at this stage was to pit again leaving him enough laps at the end to catch Petrov using the advantage of new tyres against old ones. First he had to jump Webber and he managed that by staying out one lap longer before the final stop on lap 42.
Alonso then caught Petrov at over a second a lap in the closing stages, but the plan didn’t work because the soft tyres on the Renault held up well enough now that the car was running light on fuel and the track was rubbering in and being kinder to tyres. Petrov held his nerve and Alonso ran out of laps in which to pass him.
En la RAI enseñaron las ruedas de cuando cambiaron los neumáticos a Alonso y el ingeniero que tienen en la cadena de TV dijo que no tenían ninguna degradación , que aún podían aguantar más vueltas.
Cuando acabó la carrera comentaron que parecía como si en Ferrari hubiesen calcado de nuevo la estrategia a Webber para medirse con ellos y batirle a él porque lo consideran más rival que el de Renault, cosa que luego vino a confirmar Fernando en sus declaraciones. Aunque si no llega a ser por el fallo de boxes con la rueda y de Webber en su salida de pista no se yo si les habría salido bien.....
Y no olvidemos las palabras de principio de la carrera de Marc Gené sobre la estrategia referente de que a ellos les salía en el programa que tenían en el ordenador que a 3 paradas era más rápido que a 2. Creo que de nuevo les faltó improvisación (la que tuvieron en Monza el año pasado) cuando vieron que Petrov estaba delante de Alonso y podían adelantarlo con la estrategia y se cebaron en adelantar a Webber por lo dicho , porque lo consideran más rival al llevar uno de los Red Bull. Ahí perdieron la oportunidad de rebasar al ruso por el podio. No arriesgaron lo más mínimo en la estrategia.
Fernando dijo despues de la carrera que después de la parada iban a salir con mucha ventaja de tiempo por vuelta con respecto a petrov, pero que al final los neumaticos duros (que llevaba petrov) aguantaron más de lo previsto. Osea que si que tenian intencion de adelantar a petrov
RE: james Allen - Melif1 - 04-04-2011
(04-04-2011, 16:22)FAn escribió: Fernando dijo despues de la carrera que después de la parada iban a salir con mucha ventaja de tiempo por vuelta con respecto a petrov, pero que al final los neumaticos duros (que llevaba petrov) aguantaron más de lo previsto. Osea que si que tenian intencion de adelantar a petrov
Pero es que es lo que digo , que si no es por el fallo de Red Bull y de Webber dudo que Fernando hubiese salido por delante (Webber hizo vuelta rápida en esa vuelta persiguiendo a Fernando) y hubiese podido atacar a Petrov en las últimas vueltas , y mucho menos a Webber delante suyo.
La intención de adelantar a Petrov vino cuando se vieron delante de Webber al salir del cambio de neumáticos por los fallos que tuvieron, no antes. No es algo que tuvieran programado.
Las declaraciones de Fernando desde que está en Ferrari hay que cogerlas con pinzas porque lo último que va a hacer en poner al equipo a caer de un burro....
RE: james Allen - amanoth - 05-04-2011
¿No será que el cambio de Fernando vino propiciado porque vieron que Webber habia perdido mucho tiempo en el cambio de ruedas y calcularon que si entraban en esa vuelta saldrían por delante del australiano y con posiblidades de alcanzar a Petrov?
A mi me pareción una decisión acertada adelantar a Webber en la parada en boxes, quizá luego en pista hubiera sido mucho más dificil y les hubiera hecho perder mucho tiempo el intentar adelantarle si lo conseguia firnalmente que no era del todo seguro.
Un saludo.
RE: james Allen - Melif1 - 05-04-2011
Yo lo que no entendí ni entiendo todavía fue la primera parada tan temprana de Fernando cuando iba siguiendo a Button.
En la segunda entraron cuando Fer iba detrás de Petrov, siempre a la siguiente vuelta de que parase Webber.
Ésta segunda tampoco la entendí porque aquí le dieron la opción a Petrov de cambiar al ruso su estrategia a dos paradas (si iba a 3) para quedar por delante de Fernando porque salió por detrás de Webber de su parada y le iba a ser imposible adelantarle haciéndole tapón.
La tercera sí porque fue en la que se aprovecharon de los errores de Red Bull y Webber para ganar una posición.
Pero por mucho que pienso no me cuadra nada, no veo la gran estrategia de Ferrari por ningún sitio. Veo más bien suerte por los errores de Red Bull que acierto en la estrategia. Acierto en estrategia hubiese sido llegar al podio por delante del ruso aguantando en pista unas vueltas más que él porque Fernando era mucho más rápido como se vio y no copiando las paradas de Webber. No era tan difícil (ver Monza 2010)
RE: james Allen - maripi - 05-04-2011
http://smibs.tv/the-flying-lap
Programa donde habla Scarb, Etc.....
RE: james Allen - maripi - 07-04-2011
F1 Teams still on a sharp learning curve in Sepang
Posted on | April 7, 2011 | by | 36 Comments
The second round of the world championship takes place this weekend in Sepang and there will be a lot of learn from the action on track this weekend.
A tricky weekend to plan (McLaren)
Melbourne gave us a partial picture, with Red Bull clearly the fastest car, McLaren in much better shape than in testing and Sauber clearly the most gentle car in its tyres. But the teams are all still on a sharp learning curve when it comes to ways of getting the most from the tyres on race day and maximising the exhaust blown diffusers, now that single diffusers are the order of the day.
It’s also likely that there will be rain at some point over the weekend and that should give everyone a chance to learn some more about the Pirelli intermediate tyres, on which little running has been done so far by teams. Pirelli themselves did a test in Abu Dhabi where they wet the track to test the tyres out, but there was only the odd wet session in pre season testing in Spain, one of which was a full wet condition.
We should learn more about the adjustable DRS rear wing this weekend and its capacity to improve overtaking. The hairpin leading onto the straight at Sepang offers the ideal testing ground for the DRS wing, so we can draw more conclusions from this weekend’s race.
On the subject of the blown diffusers, one thing which definitely caught my eye this week was the statement from Renault that they used 10% more fuel during the race in Australia in order to maximise the exhuast gas pressure on the overrun in the corners. Here’s what they said,
“To power a blown floor effectively and generate additional downforce, an engine must produce significant amounts of exhaust gas. Simply put, the more fuel burned, the more exhaust is produced and potentially more downforce. Since the RS27’s fuel consumption rate is extremely good, the Renault-equipped teams were able to burn 10% more fuel than normal during the Australian Grand Prix without running out of fuel, therefore giving more exhaust flow to its partners using the blown diffuser.”
That is something like 15kg of extra fuel needed, which around Albert Park equates to about six tenths of a second compared to not carrying that fuel. Renault’s boast here is that their engine is that much more efficient than the other engines that they can have the gain of the diffuser without carrying more fuel than their rivals. That’s quite a benefit. I’d like to drill down into that a bit more over the coming weeks.
Renault were the pioneers of the return of the exhaust blown diffuser with Red Bull last season and they seem to have an advantage here. Meanwhile their rivals Ferrari and McLaren have a bit of an advantage on KERS, having optimised their second version of KERS this year. Red Bull has a different kind of KERS from the Renault and there is still a lot to learn about how that works. The heads up that they were using a start only system in Australia was a strong one but appears to have been not entirely correct. It’s only a matter of time before someone uncovers the truth behind what they are doing differently.
Tyre wise, the heat combined with the higher energy corners and the slightly more abrasive surface will mean that a “Perez” (ie a one stopper) is very unlikely in dry conditions. Pirelli are saying three or fours stops but engineers I’ve spoken to this week say that a car which is gentle on its tyres like the Sauber can maybe get away with saving a stop, so we will see a mixture of two, three and maybe even a four stop strategy.
This looks to be an area where Ferrari has a weakness at the moment – they are tougher on tyres than their rivals. It’s a key area for them to work on. Fernando Alonso said today that preparing strategy for Sepang is one of the most stressful of the season, “You need to be prepared for every eventuality. It’s not just a problem for us drivers, as its affects the whole team: in some cases you need to be ready with a plan B or C, or even maybe a D for all the various scenarios,” he said
Incidentally, the Sepang race is one of the least likely to see a Safety Car – a 14% chance in fact, one of the lowest probabilities of the season.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/04/f1-teams-still-on-a-sharp-learning-curve-in-sepang/
RE: james Allen - pantheon10 - 07-04-2011
Melbourne nos dio una imagen parcial, con Red Bull claramente el coche más rápido, McLaren en mejor forma que en las pruebas y Sauber coche claramente más suave en los neumáticos. Pero los equipos son todos en una curva de aprendizaje fuerte cuando se trata de formas de aprovechar al máximo los neumáticos en el día de la raza y maximizando el escape soplado difusores, ahora que solo difusores están a la orden del día.
También es probable que habrá lluvia en algún momento durante el fin de semana y que debe dar a todos una oportunidad para aprender más sobre los neumáticos intermedios de Pirelli, poco corriente que se ha hecho hasta la fecha por equipos. Pirelli se hizo una prueba en Abu Dhabi donde moje la pista para probar los neumáticos fuera, pero hubo sólo la sesión húmeda impar en la pre temporada en España, uno de los cuales era una condición húmeda completa.
Deberíamos aprender más sobre el alerón trasero ajustable de DRS este fin de semana y su capacidad para mejorar los adelantamientos. La horquilla que conduce a la recta en Sepang ofrece el campo de pruebas ideal para el ala DRS, así que podemos sacar conclusiones más de la carrera de este fin de semana.
Sobre el tema de los difusores soplados, algo que definitivamente me llamó la atención esta semana fue la declaración de Renault que utilizaron un 10% más de combustible durante la carrera en Australia a fin de maximizar la presión de gas de exhuast sobre la saturación en las esquinas. Aquí es lo que dijeron,
"Para alimentar una planta soplada eficazmente y generar alerón adicional, un motor debe producir grandes cantidades de gases de escape. En pocas palabras, el más combustible quemado, se produce el escape más y potencialmente más fuerza. Como tasa de consumo de combustible de RS27 es muy buena, los equipos de Renault equipados pudieron quemar combustible un 10% más de lo normal durante el gran premio de Australia, sin quedarse sin combustible, por lo tanto, dando más flujo de escape a sus socios utilizando el difusor soplado."
Es algo así como de 15 kg de combustible adicional necesaria, que alrededor de Albert Park equivale a unos seis décimas de segundo en comparación con no llevar a cabo ese combustible. Renault presumir aquí es que su motor que es mucho más eficaz que los otros motores que pueden tener la ganancia de la difusora sin llevar más combustible que sus rivales. Es un beneficio. Me gustaría profundizar en un poco más en las próximas semanas.
Renault fueron los pioneros de la devolución de los gases de escape soplado difusor con Red Bull en la temporada pasada y parecen tener una ventaja aquí. Mientras tanto sus rivales de Ferrari y McLaren tienen un poco de ventaja sobre KERS, habiendo optimizado su segunda versión de KERS este año. Red Bull tiene un tipo diferente de KERS de la Renault y hay todavía mucho que aprender sobre cómo funciona. Los jefes hasta que estaban utilizando un sistema único de inicio en Australia es fuerte pero parecen no ser totalmente correcto. Es sólo cuestión de tiempo antes de que alguien descubre la verdad detrás de lo que están haciendo en forma diferente.
Tiro sabio, el calor combinada con las esquinas superiores de la energía y la superficie ligeramente más abrasiva significará que un "Pérez" (es decir, un tapón de uno) es muy poco probable en condiciones secas. Pirelli dicen tres o paradas de patas pero ingenieros que he hablado esta semana dicen que un coche que es suave en sus neumáticos como el Sauber tal vez puede salirse con guardar una parada, por lo que vamos a ver una mezcla de dostres y tal vez incluso una estrategia de cuatro parada.
Esto parece para ser un área donde Ferrari tiene una debilidad por el momento, son más duras sobre neumáticos que sus rivales. Es un área clave para que funcionen en. Fernando Alonso, dijo hoy que prepara la estrategia para entrenamientos es uno de los más estresante de la temporada, "debe estar preparado para cualquier eventualidad. No es sólo un problema para nosotros los controladores, como su afecta a todo el equipo: en algunos casos debe ser preparado con un plan b o c o quizás incluso un d para todos los escenarios, "dijo
Por cierto, la carrera de Sepang es una de las menos probabilidades de ver un coche de seguridad, un 14% posibilidades de hecho, una de las más bajas probabilidades de la temporada.
Para mi carrera pre completa estrategia informativa, con análisis de profundidad de todas las consideraciones para la estrategia de carrera este fin de semana, vaya a mi Estrategia informativa, traído a usted por UBS
Haga clic en "Micrositio especial" y, a continuación, haga clic en el mapa del circuito de Sepang. Disfrute!
traduccion online
RE: james Allen - maripi - 12-04-2011
A deep dive into race strategies from F1 Malaysian Grand PrixPosted on | April 12, 2011 | by | 68 Comments
As in Melbourne the renewed importance of race strategy was highlighted in Malaysia on Sunday. The tyre degradation was much worse than Melbourne and so reacting and making quick decisions and correct decisions was vital.
“A lot of it is getting the strategy right, which is up to the team but also the driver,” said Jenson Button after the race. How right he was.
Places won and lost at start (Red Bull)
But tyres weren’t the only strategic consideration; the adjustable DRS wing and the difference between cars with KERS and those without was also a far more significant factor in the way the racing played out than in round one. With Sepang’s long straights, it was relatively easy to overtake, especially for cars with KERS and this contributed to strategic thinking.
With the data from Melbourne to work from, the strategy for Malaysia worked out pretty much as the simulators said it would. We had a mix of two, three and four stop strategies. Those doing four stops like Mark Webber, used five sets of tyres in the race, when the total allocation for qualifying and race is six sets.
The total time for a pit stop was just 21 seconds, which is 7 seconds less than Melbourne. So if you could run unimpeded then three stops was the fastest way to go in Sepang. But only race winner Sebastian Vettel really had that luxury. For most other drivers, making three stops inevitably meant coming out of the pits in traffic at some point. Being able to overtake a car on older tyres was crucial at such moments to making the strategy work and we saw a lot of that, for example Hamilton on Petrov on lap 26.
The three podium finishers all did subtle variations on the same strategy with three stops, using soft tyres for the first three stints and then hard tyres for the final stint. This was the winning strategy, but there were plenty of significant variations.
At its hottest the track temperature was 54 degrees on Friday and that did two things; it skewed people’s attitudes towards tyre degradation, pushing some of them into planning shorter stints and more pit stops and it also made them believe that the hard tyre wouldn’t last much longer than the soft and that it was a second a lap slower. However Mark Webber’s long run on Saturday morning provided a counter argument for those willing to gamble on making a set of hard tyres last 18 laps or more.
Sauber’s Kamui Kobayashi managed to do the race with just two stops, making a set of soft tyres last 19 laps and a set of hards last 20 laps. Williams was also planning two stops for both its cars. To contemplate it you needed to be able to do a minimum of 18 laps on a set of tyres. Not everyone can do that.
Hamilton confers before race (McLaren)
Lewis Hamilton: Team Strategy decisions questioned
Lewis Hamilton questioned some of his McLaren team’s decisions after the race. He felt that he was brought in prematurely for some of his stops and it contributed to him being forced to make a fourth stop, at his request, just four laps from the end. Had he been able to stay out a little longer on his first two stints, that could have been avoided. The team argued that he used up his tyres in pushing hard in the opening phases of the race to catch Vettel. It shows how finely balanced the decision making is and how an extra couple of laps on the early stints can make all the difference at the end of the race.
Hamilton was also the victim of a slow pit stop on lap 37, which cost him a place to his team mate Jenson Button. What could have been a second place ended up being 8th place.
Hamilton lost a place at the start to Nick Heidfeld. He was unable to repass as the Renault had the fastest car through the speed trap.
Running third in the opening stint he pitted relatively early on lap 12. He took a second set of soft tyres at this point and managed to undercut Heidfeld, who stopped two laps later. Now in second place, Hamilton began closing on race leader Vettel, bringing the gap down from 9 seconds to 3.9 seconds by lap 23. The team appear to have felt that he took too much out of the tyres in this quest, which hurt him later. One could argue also that it was a vain quest anyway, as Vettel was clearly not pushing his car at all and could have gone faster whenever he needed to. But Hamilton is a racer and that’s the way he chose to play it.
Still catching Vettel he came in for his second stop on lap 24, prematurely he felt and looking at the lap times you’d have to agree. He was put on the hard tyre.
Why did they do this? Several reasons; Hamilton had flat spotted a set of soft tyres in qualifying, so had less soft tyres available than others. But also the team was looking at the example of Adrian Sutil in the Force India, who was running on hard tyres at this point and was going slightly faster than team mate Paul di Resta who was on softs.
Also for those who noticed it, Webber had done a long run on hard tyres on Saturday morning which was very fast. So the hard maybe wasn’t such a bad idea.
It was clear that Hamilton was trying to make a three stop plan work, but he lost time at that second stop and then struggled with the balance of the car on hard tyres and started losing ground. A collision with Fernando Alonso damaged the floor of the car. Having pitted on lap 37 he felt unable to make his hard tyres last 19 laps to reach the finish. Although he was lapping in the 1m 43s, he felt that he had to stop again and in doing so he lost track positions to Heidfeld, Webber, Massa and Alonso. A costly decision.
In contrast Button managed to make his set of hard tyres last 18 laps and they were still fast at the end.
One of four for Webber (Red Bull)
Mark Webber: Zigging while the others zag
Mark Webber did something different from the rest in Melbourne; stopping three times when the winning call was two stops. In Malaysia he was at it again, despite driving the fastest car in the field. So why is he having problems with strategy while team mate Vettel is cruising at the front?
In Melbourne it was down to him being harder on the tyres than Vettel. In Sepang there was more to it. Webber’s race was compromised by a poor start due to a clutch problem and then no KERS to help him. Once they hit 100km/h after the start (the point at which they can use KERS) the cars behind him shot past; Massa, Alonso, Heidfeld, Petrov and Schumacher. From third on the grid he was ninth on the opening lap and 10th on lap three when Kobayashi passed him.
Without KERS to help him pass cars, he and his engineer were forced to think outside the box. If they did the same as everyone else, went the thinking, they would end up ninth. So they decided at the end of lap one to switch from a three to a four stop strategy. This allowed him to push hard in four of the five stints; he lost a lot of time in the opening stint behind Kobayashi, who was two seconds a lap slower than the leader, Vettel. Such is the pace of the Red Bull however that, once in clear air, Webber was able to progress.
It paid off in the sense that he was able to recover and finish fourth. The strategy, giving him either clear track to run on or new tyres with which to pass cars after his stop, helped to get him ahead of Kobayashi, Schumacher, Petrov and Massa. He pulled off some great moves on new tyres. But he was also helped by Hamilton and Alonso’s problems.
Kamui Kobayashi: Sauber makes tyres last again
Kamui Kobayashi pulled off quite a feat on Sunday. He managed to be racy, overtaking cars in spectacular style, whilst at the same time managing to make his tyres last long enough to get away with a two stop strategy. And that was quite impressive.
Mindful of Sergio Perez’ performance in Melbourne , where he gained track positions by stopping only once, it was in the minds of a number of teams to do the minimum and stop twice in Sepang. The tyre degradation was too severe to contemplate one stop. The lap times would drop off suddenly and that would be costly. Kovalainen, Glock and Alguersuari managed it, but the most effective was Kobayashi who got a 7th place finish from a 10th place start.
However this was more of a survival strategy by Kobayashi than anything else. Looking to go to lap 17 on his first set of soft tyres his pace was not great in the opening stint. On the soft tyre again in the middle stint he was racing against Michael Schumacher, who was on a three stopper. Kobayashi did well to make his final set of hard tyres last 20 laps. He made it work and got ahead when Schumacher made his third stop. He also gained a place when Lewis Hamilton was penalised after the race.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/04/a-deep-dive-into-race-strategies-from-f1-malaysian-grand-prix/
RE: james Allen - maripi - 14-04-2011
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/04/ferrari-managers-fly-home-for-emergency-meeting/
Despite the Chinese Grand Prix this weekend being back to back with Malaysia, the three main managers of Ferrari’s F1 team have made a 48 hour return trip to Italy this week to try to resolve some issues relating to the performance of the cars.
Team boss Stefano Domenicali, technical director Aldo Costa and his deputy Pat Fry made the two day round trip to investigate why the car is not performing the way the simulation tools say it should. The problem is particularly clear in qualifying. Downforce is central to this. Massa said on the eve of the Malaysian race that they are not getting the best from the front wing and its clear that their rivals are also getting more from the exhaust blown diffuser. But the problem is also more basic than that.
Wind tunnel problems (Photo:Ferrari)
Speaking on Ferrari’s website Domenicali said, “We’ll try to have something ready for China but we know that first we’ll have to work out why the figures in the wind tunnel do not correspond with those we have seen on the racetrack. If we don’t have a clear picture of things here, we’ll have to approach the development of the car from a different angle.”
The background story here is that Ferrari updated their windtunnel from 50-60 percent last year and the correlation between tunnel and track isn’t there at the moment. They spent a lot of time on Friday in Malaysia doing aero tests instead of setting up the car – time they never made back.
Wind tunnel correlation problems are nothing new in F1; Renault had them a couple of years ago as have plenty of other teams. Until they are understood and rectified, it’s very hard for a team to move forward on development. And with strong rivals like Red Bull, McLaren, Renault and even Mercedes likely to make big gains in the coming weeks and months, you can see the urgency to solve the problem.
Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo raised the bar at the launch of the car in January when he said, “This year we have to win”. After Sunday’s race he said, “I am definitely not satisfied with the way the season has begun, but I have complete faith in the people here who know how to react when the situation is tough.
“I reckon that will be difficult as I don’t think Ferrari can turn it around in the space of a week.”
Ferrari were much stronger in the race than they were in qualifying, where Alonso was 9/10ths off Vettel’s Red Bull and 8/10ths off Hamilton’s McLaren. Massa was 1.3 seconds off the pole. The concern is also the Renault; Nick Heidfeld split the Ferraris in qualifying and with the Renault’s awesome starts and straight line speed, he threatens to be in front of them on the opening lap and hard to pass, unless they can keep him behind them on the grid.
But in the race, even if Vettel was cruising, the McLarens definitely weren’t and Alonso was giving them a hard time. Add in to that the fact that Alonso’s DRS rear wing wasn’t working and there is some encouragement for the team. Their strategy decisions were pretty sound too, even if they had some problems with the execution of the pit stops.
RE: james Allen - Melif1 - 14-04-2011
(14-04-2011, 15:30)maripi escribió: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/04/ferrari-managers-fly-home-for-emergency-meeting/
But in the race, even if Vettel was cruising, the McLarens definitely weren’t and Alonso was giving them a hard time. Add in to that the fact that Alonso’s DRS rear wing wasn’t working and there is some encouragement for the team. Their strategy decisions were pretty sound too, even if they had some problems with the execution of the pit stops.
Falso.
Lo hubiese sido si Fernando no hubiese adelantado en pista a Button o le hubiese funcionado correctamente el DRS. Pero Button estaba adelantado tras el primer pit stop y el DRS no le funcionaba desde la vuelta ¿28?.
Lo siento, pero la estrategia no fue buena y ahí está el segundo puesto de Button para demostrarlo. Alonso le había adelantado en pista y era más rápido que él.