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+--- Tema: Comparativa Alonso Vs. Massa 2010-2012 (/thread-3135.html)
RE: Comparativa Alonso Vs. Massa 2010-2012 - Unai - 15-05-2012
(15-05-2012, 15:54)pantheon10 escribió: Según james allen Hamilton debió ganar la carrera con medio segundo por vuelta.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/05/how-maldonado-won-while-lotus-and-mclaren-lost-the-spanish-grand-prix/
Precisamente hoy he mirado el ritmo de Hamilton en la carrera, como curiosidad.
Dado el trafico que tuvo durante su primer stint, entiendo que aun cuando tenia aire limpio despues de adelantar a uno, hasta llegar al siguiente hiciese peores sectores que Alonso o Maldonado.
He mirado los tiempos que hacia despues de sus paradas. Tras la primera parada, tampoco nos puede dar un ritmo real porque nada mas salir de su parada cogio muchisimo trafico.
Analizando los tiempos despues de la segunda parada ( vuelta 35 ) vemos :
- La vuelta 36 sale detras de Di Resta, al cual adelanta en la recta de meta al empezar la vuelta 37.
- La vuelta 37 es con aire limpio, incluso se aprovecha del DRS al adelantar a Di Resta al comienzo de la vuelta.
Tiempos de la vuelta 37:
* Maldonado - 1:29:499 (neumaticos con 11 vueltas mas que Hamilton)
* Alonso - 1:28:997 (neumaticos con 9 vueltas mas que Hamilton)
* Haminton - 1:29:664
- Al comienzo de la vuelta 38, sigue con aire limpio. Tiene por delante a Ricciardo a 1.7 segundos. Lo coge en el tercer sector, asi que pongo los tiempos de los 2 primeros sectores de la vuelta 38 :
* Madonado - S1 24.8 S2 33.6 (neumaticos 11 v. mas que Hamilton)
* Alonso - S1 24.7 S2 33.4 (neumaticos 9 v. mas que Hamilton)
* Hamilton - S1 25.3 S2 34.2
- Vueltas 39 y 40 con trafico
- A partir de la vuelta 41 pista libre...
* Maldonado -A cambiar neumaticos
* Alonso - 1:29:385 (neumaticos con 9 vueltas mas que Hamilton)
* Haminton - 1:29:612
- Vuelta 42
* Alonso - 1:29:918 (neumaticos con 9 vueltas mas que Hamilton)
* Haminton - 1:29:919
- Vuelta 43
* Alonso - 1:29:184 (neumaticos con 9 vueltas mas que Hamilton)
* Haminton - 1:29:647
- Vuelta 44 Alonso a cambiar neumaticos.
Con todos estos datos, vemos que Hamilton tenia peor ritmo que Alonso y Maldonado, aun cuando los neumaticos de estos tenian 9 y 11 vueltas mas respectivamente. Entiendo que no forzase los neumaticos por querer hacer una parada menos, pero que no me intenten vender la burra de que Hamilton tenia un ritmo de carrera 0,5 seg por vuelta superior.
Mas que nada porque en ningun momento lo demostró.
El analisis de James Allen ha debido ser este :
Tiempos en Q3
Lewis Hamilton 1:21.707
Pastor Maldonado 1:22.285
Fernando Alonso 1:22.302
Como en calificacion era 0,5 segundos mas rapido, pues en carrera tambien...
Y mas ancho que largo se ha quedao!!
RE: Comparativa Alonso Vs. Massa 2010-2012 - NachoBcn - 15-05-2012
Massa está en una de esas espirales de las que es casi imposible salir... todo lo que puede salir mal, sale mal y lo que puede salir bien... no lo hace.
RE: Comparativa Alonso Vs. Massa 2010-2012 - DE-ZETA-TE - 15-05-2012
...las cifras Massa vs. Fernando son apabullantes. Y viendo que ni con Raikkonen ni con Schumacher era tanta la diferencia (de hecho en 2008 casi se lo lleva) cada vez estoy más convencido de que su desgraciado accidente fué su particular tercio de varas. La llegada de Fernando a Ferrari le supuso el de banderillas. Y este arranque de temporada va a ser su estoque de muerte.
Demasiado torero le ha tocado a este toro.
P.D....a James Allen le ha dado un subidón de patriotismo british...dudo mucho que Lewis les metiera medio segundo por vuelta en carrera, de haber ido delante con aire limpio. Unai lo demuestra brillantemente, como siempre...
RE: Comparativa Alonso Vs. Massa 2010-2012 - Unai - 15-05-2012
(15-05-2012, 21:08)DE-ZETA-TE escribió: ...las cifras Massa vs. Fernando son apabullantes. Y viendo que ni con Raikkonen ni con Schumacher era tanta la diferencia (de hecho en 2008 casi se lo lleva) cada vez estoy más convencido de que su desgraciado accidente fué su particular tercio de varas. La llegada de Fernando a Ferrari le supuso el de banderillas. Y este arranque de temporada va a ser su estoque de muerte.
Demasiado torero le ha tocado a este toro.
P.D....a James Allen le ha dado un subidón de patriotismo british...dudo mucho que Lewis les metiera medio segundo por vuelta en carrera, de haber ido delante con aire limpio. Unai lo demuestra brillantemente, como siempre...
Gracias DE-ZETA-TE
RE: Comparativa Alonso Vs. Massa 2010-2012 - maripi - 16-05-2012
Comaparativa entre compañeros
Fernando trials his new ''compound eye' sunglasses
Because in F1 the first person you have to beat is your team-mate...
Red Bull Racing
Race: Vettel
Season: Sebastian Vettel 3 - Mark Webber 2
Last race we had the 2011 Vettel and this race we had the 2009 Red Bull, occasionally fast but a bit fragile and going through new noses faster than the late Michael Jackson. Mark should obviously have been a lot further forward than he was and got stung by trying to save too many tyres in Q2. He knew it was going to suck from P12 on the grid and he wasn't wrong. In the race he lost performance from his tyres simply because he got stuck in traffic. Sebastian made better progress by starting higher up the grid, having to follow fewer people and getting a nose change when the gaps between cars were bigger and the delay less significant.
McLaren
Race: Hamilton
Season: Jenson Button 2 - Lewis Hamilton 3
Some very interesting comments from Lewis after the race that give an indication of the tensions brought about by comparison with your team-mate. "Someone told me that I was the only person on a two stop, so I think that considering everyone keeps telling me that I am hard on tyres and how much smoother my team-mate is, I think that should show them." In fact it was his opening stint that was the most impressive because he overtook cars, diced in traffic and got his tyres through to Lap 15 - if you compare that against the Red Bulls of Lap 7 and 8. Button had another moany weekend. If Kimi Raikkonen's default phrase of the year is "I'm disappointed" then Jenson's would be, "I've got no rear grip." Race engineers must have the patience of saints.
Mercedes
Race: Rosberg
Season: Michael Schumacher 2 - Nico Rosberg 3
For Michael, the accident with Senna was like a throwback to his return season when he hadn't quite come to terms with the speed of cars and would get embroiled with Kobayashi and Petrov on a regular basis. Another good combative start from him though and he didn't bang on about Pirelli tyres, even though a few more started to grumble, although not as overtly as Schumi had. Following a heated driver discussion on Friday, Nico Rosberg kept his head down and wasn't so possessive about places as he had been in Bahrain. He did manage to resist Kamui Kobayashi, but not for long.
Ferrari
Race: Alonso
Season: Fernando Alonso 5 - Felipe Massa 0
Yet again Alonso looked like he was driving above the car's ability while Massa appeared to be driving below it. If starts were races, though, Felipe would be up there challenging for the title, he rocketed forward from P16 on the grid to P11 on the opening lap. It's not the first time he's made up the difference of a poor qualifying, but now the clock really IS ticking. Circumstances in the race conspired against him. His drive-through penalty was a marginal call and hard to stomach when you consider Romain Grosjean had two collisions that affected two drivers' races yet wasn't even investigated by the stewards.
Alonso was his dependable best, never likely to give it less than maximum in front of the Annual General Meeting of the Fernando Alonso fanclub. For those collectors of sublime Andrea Stella (Fernando's race engineer) moments on team radio we had an old favourite come back at Barcelona. Andrea sounded like he was already on the harbour front in Monaco, on a café terrace sipping a double espresso, leaning back in his rattan chair, eyeing the ladies through expensive designer shades and casually mentioning into his mobile: "Tell me about tyres when you can."
Lotus
Race: Raikkonen
Season: Kimi Raikkonen 4 - Romain Grosjean 1
Old miserable was right up the front again, delighting us all with a variety of long-winded anecdotes. Actually his race was about as boring as one of his interviews in that he ran on his own for long periods, gently falling back from the leading duo, with no chance to be the bustling, aggressive Kimi that more than makes up for the face time. It was a surprise to many that the Lotus cars weren't faster. Romain Grosjean is an enthusiastic, likeable guy but he was very close to a lost front wing or a trip to see the stewards.
Force India
Race: Hulkenberg
Season: Paul di Resta 4 - Nico Hulkenberg 1
At last Nico Hulkenberg took his opportunity and restored some balance in the Force India intra-team battle. Paul di Resta's role in the race seemed to be 'the car that was most overtaken', whenever the TV cut back to him he was losing places. But at least they got into shot more than they have in previous races.
Sauber
Race: Kobayashi
Season: Kamui Kobayashi 3 - Sergio Perez 2
Sergio's race never got going thanks to light contact and a puncture on the opening lap. The only chance back for him would have been a Safety Car after the Schumacher/Senna incident and we've seen them brought out for less carbon fibre than that. Presumably Charlie Whiting's logic was that marshals could get out on the track and recover them safely because they had a whole straight to see cars coming.
Kamui was his irresistible best nudging his way past some top cars with a tyre-to-tyre kiss - the Kamui calling card.Williams
Race: Maldonado
Season: Maldonado 2 - Senna 3
Pastor Maldonado re-wrote Williams history on Sunday, but on the Saturday he'd all but picked up the TMW points with a brilliant P2 while his team-mate exited in Q1 (a woeful P18). Bruno Senna's pace on Saturday was a concern exacerbated by the fact that every driver knows Barcelona thoroughly - which is why there was just one tenth of a second between Raikkonen in P5 and Mark Webber in P12 in Q2. There's less chance to muddle through with a superior car and a poor lap, because all the other drivers are experts at the Circuit de Catalunya and can do the same with a lesser car and a great lap.
Torro Rosso
Race: Vergne
Season: Daniel Ricciardo 1 - Jean-Eric Vergne 4
Jean-Eric got a blinding start and was up to P10 on the opening lap. Ricciardo pulled it back through the race and they were pretty evenly matched, running together and finishing together. It's like Buemi and Alguersuari all over again.
Caterham
Race: Kovalainen
Season: Vitaly Petrov 3 - Heikki Kovalainen 2
Petrov outqualified Kovalainen for a change and it was interesting to see them going at it from Hamilton's onboard camera. Kov came home in front.
Marussia
Race: Pic
Season: Timo Glock 3 - Charles Pic 2
Charles Pic is beginning to impress by outqualifying the very experienced Timo Glock. Though Fernando Alonso wasn't too impressed with his performance in the race. What I don't quite understand is how the Marussia could have held the Ferrari up for three blue flags which included the start/finish straight where Alonso would have had the DRS available.
HRT
Race: de la Rosa
Season: Narain Karthikeyan 1 - Pedro de la Rosa 3
De la Rosa had the HRT that was driveable and Narain had the HRT with oversteer, understeer, judder and shudder. The only thing Narain's car didn't appear to be doing in free practice was porpoising, but given a couple of sets of extra tyres... Good to see that HRT had their own fans and a couple of banners at Barcelona, even though the black and gold umbrellas on the grid make it look uncomfortably like a New Orleans funeral.
Star of the Race
Button 1, Perez 1, Rosberg 1, Raikkonen 1, Maldonado 1
Overtaking Move of the Race
Raikkonen1, Button 1, Grosjean 1, DiResta 1, Hamilton 1
Dull vs Exciting GPs
Exciting 5 - Dull 0
Quotable Quotes
Ben Edwards on the BBC: "We'll see if they can put in some lapid rap times."
Eddie Jordan: "Sometimes we have to pinch ourselves. Why has this happened? And I'm sorry to be offensive to Michael Schumacher but you have to give credit to Pirelli because they have managed to be able to mix things up to make sure it's a gigantic show."
Eeyore Raikkonen:"For some people you have to be up there and beat your team-mate to feel good, but for me it makes no difference."
Andrew Davies
http://www.planetf1.com/race-features/7759810/Team-Mate-Wars-Barcelona