Ferrari-Test Aerodinámico en Idiada

[joint350]

Estan exprimiendo tanto el motor con los reglajes que el coche les da problemas. eso es una buena noticia, tendrán que volver a reglajes anteriores y la ventaja que vimos en Valencia no sera la misma en la siguiente carrera

[Alfaster-F1]

Esta muy vestida

si la vieras con estos ojos ivas a alucinar.

[El abuelo]

Hablando de RENAULT Y SUS MOTORES..

Overheating caused Renault's Valencia failures on Sebastian Vettel and Romain Grosjean's cars By AutoSport

Sebastian Vettel and Romain Grosjean's retirements from the European Grand Prix were both caused by an overheating alternator, engine supplier Renault has confirmed, but the French car manufacturer is still uncertain about why the parts got too hot in the first place.

Renault has conducted a detailed examination of the Red Bull Racing and Lotus engines that failed in Valencia, and its conclusion points to the overheating parts cutting the electrical supply to the power units and forcing both drivers out.

But despite knowing what caused the engines to shut down, Renault is conducting further tests this week to work out why the overheating issue reared its head in the first place.

Renault Sport F1 deputy managing director Rob White said: "We've checked over the parts thoroughly now and it seems that there were no obvious reasons for the failure, so we are conducting further tests on the dyno at Viry to replicate conditions and double checking the findings."

White said that investigations had concluded that the failures were not related to the mid-race safety car period - and in fact Vettel's engine actually lasted longer than it would have done because it had a few laps running slower than normal.

"We had evidence that the alternator on Sebastian's car was showing signs of overheating before the safety car period, but the slower speeds prolonged its life expectancy slightly," he said.

"Of course, when Sebastian went back up to racing speed the problem stepped up again and the result is now well known. With Romain's car, the problem occurred very suddenly some laps after the safety car had been withdrawn."

Renault plans to implement some changes to the alternators for the next race at Silverstone, as well as using another supply batch in case that was a factor in the problem.

"We are looking at several solutions," explained White. "The first is to use another batch of alternators for Silverstone across all our clients, or a slightly modified design.

"We are also looking at returning to an older specification of alternator from 2011. Then we are working across all our partner teams to potentially introduce some mechanical and cooling solutions, or changing a few settings on acceleration maps so the running is less severe.

"All of these will be in evaluated between now and Silverstone, plus we will also look at everything after Friday running and see what additional measures we may need to take."

Se va a hartar Vergne de los latigazos que le estarán dando en Milton Keynes

Recalco esto: SOLUCIONES AL PROBLEMA
"The first is to use another batch of alternators for Silverstone across all our clients"
Usar una nueva remesa de alternadores (posible error de fabricación)

"a slightly modified design"
Un diseño ligerament modificado (posible error de diseño)

"We are also looking at returning to an older specification of alternator from 2011"
Pasar de esta version y volver a la antigua.


PERO LO MAS IMPORTANTE:
Then we are working across all our partner teams to potentially introduce some mechanical and cooling solutions, or changing a few settings on acceleration maps so the running is less severe.

1º Instar a los equipos a que hagan cambios de diseño mecanico/refrigeración

2º Cambiar unos cuantos ajustes en los MAPAS para que el uso del alternador sea MENOS SEVERO..

MAPAS y FALTA DE REFRIGERACION..
Eso es lo que HABRÍA CAUSADO el sobrecalentamiento y muerte del alternador de Vettel durante la carrera.. y solo gracias al SC, aguantó unas cuantas vueltas MAS... OJO A ESTO

[Alfaster-F1]

Espero que no te lo creas abuelo, todo el mundo sabe que cuando hay un safety, los motores se sobrecalientan más.

[ICOBIK1972]

Pero casualmente, los dos abandonos ocurridos despues del SC han sido con motores Renault.

Casualidad?? tal vez, en GB veremos si van tan rápidos.

[Locust SJ]

Ja! Pues nada... ahora aprovecharán la ocasión y pedirán permiso a la FIA para meter mano a los motores alegando problemas de fiabilidad. Y como ahora ya saben de que pie calza la ECU de este año que limita el soplado... No digo más!

[Alfaster-F1]

Una mentira, fijo que hay, no puede Helmut echarle una de cal al SC y luego venir Renault y hecharle la de arena, a no serrrrrr


que el pequeño Napoleón barra para su casa, al igual Ferrari hizo en su dia con él, por eso del patriotismo y tal.

[Wallabee]

Anda, el mismo problema que en los Mondeos !!! Los alternadores !!! ¿Qué marca usan los Renault, Denso o Bosch?

[El abuelo]

Los renault usan .. renault ( eso han dicho ellos)

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2012/06/28...-failures/


Rob White the RenaultSport F1 Deputy Managing Director, provided a detailed explanation of the problem.
Firstly, a point I need to stress, is that the failed alternator is a Renault part

As White explains “it is a Renault part. We use various suppliers for the sub-internals but we build the alternators so we are responsible for the integrity of the part.” W
hite continues and confirms the cause of the failures “It appears that both alternators overheated. We’ve checked over the parts thoroughly now and it seems that there were no obvious reasons for the failure, so we are conducting further tests on the dyno at Viry to replicate conditions and double checking the findings”.

As the failure on Vettel’s Red Bull occurred immediately after the safety car came in, it was a common assumption that the Safety car caused the failure some how. “The slower speeds prolonged its life expectancy slightly” was the surprise response from White, as the slow running meant the alternator was running at a reduced load and allowed it to cool.

White goes on to explain the failure was already a known problem for Red Bull in the race
“We had evidence that the alternator on Sebastian’s car was showing signs of overheating before the safety car period. Of course, when Sebastian went back up to racing speed, the problem stepped up again and the result is now well known”.

In contrast to the forewarning of the Red Bull failure, the Lotus problem came on more quickly “With Romain’s, the problem occurred very suddenly some laps after the safety car had been withdrawn.”

This years Renault alternator is a slightly revised specification and the units on the two cars in Valencia were effectively ‘new’, as both drivers had a fresh engine installed after Friday. This perhaps points to an explanation for these specific failures “they were brand new parts, which points to the fact that this may be an issue with a particular batch of alternators”.

With two high profile failures and each which could have cost a race victory, RenaultSport, have to act to resolve the issue on behalf of their customers. With the British GP just a week away and within the stringent engine regulations, their options are limited. With it being a clear reliability issue and potentially restricted to batch of Alternators, White proposes several options “The first is to use another batch of alternators for Silverstone across all our clients, or a slightly modified design.” The next option White suggests is “looking at returning to an older specification of alternator from 2011.”
As well as the physical alternator, there are other ways the teams manage the problem “potentially introduce some mechanical and cooling solutions, or changing a few settings on acceleration maps so the running is less severe.”
White concludes “All of these will be in evaluated between now and Silverstone, plus we will also look at everything after Friday running and see what additional measures we may need to take.”


Un alternador que trabaje a 18.000 revoluciones, se calentará mucho mas que uno que trabaje 5000.
Eso solo como ejemplo.
No hablamos de motores refrigerados por aire.. para los que sí pueden ser dañinos un SC..


El problema es que Vettel y Grosjean pusieron motor nuevo el sabado, y con ellos, venían alternadores de un 'nuevo paquete'.
Ese 'nuevo paquete' ha fallado por sobre calentamiento.
Y las soluciones que les da Renault a sus clientes son:
-.Usar otros alternadores del mismo diseño (para eliminar problemas de fabricación.. )
-.Usar alternadores de diferente diseño (para eliminar un fallo de diseño)
-.Usar alternadores del 2011, de diferente diseño/fabricación ( para evitar los dos problemas)

Así mismo, y para paliar cualquier problema :
As well as the physical alternator, there are other ways the teams manage the problem “potentially introduce some mechanical and cooling solutions, or changing a few settings on acceleration maps so the running is less severe.”
- Introducir soluciones mecanicas y de refrigeración..
- o cambiar unos pocos ajustes en los mapas para que el trabajo del alternador sea menos severo

Se trata ( por lo que leo entre lineas) de un mensajito de Renault 'motores' a sus clientes:
"Si quereis usar esos mapas motor, preparad mas refrigeración.. o yo no me hago responsable, ni con modelos nuevos"

[Javy10]

yo ya sabeis mi teoria sobre lo de la rtura de motor y parece que si es eso o al menos algo semejante y me temo que red bull tendra que dar un pasito atras sino quieren que no vuelva a pasar. unos coches que no se rompian nunca y de repente los problemas de todo el fin de semana de webber y lo de vettel? (que lo del safety es una tonteria sino se romperian unos cuantos)