13-07-2015, 09:40
(Este mensaje fue modificado por última vez en: 13-07-2015, 09:44 por san.)
Jajaja, yo también tengo la gripe nipona esta.
Por cierto, en f1technical ha aparecido un usuario (un tal wazari) que dice haber trabajado para Honda en sus años de gloria y luego para Toyota Racing. También dice que su sobrino trabaja en Honda F1 pero que no suelta prenda del trabajo que hacen. No obstante según rumores parece haber cuatro niveles de potencia, que han estado usando el segundo las dos últimas carreras y él estima que este tendría unos 90 CV menos que el Mercedes. La cuarta supuestamente da la potencia estimada del Mercedes o un poco más. Valorad vosotros mismos que credibilidad le otorgáis, os pongo el post aquí abajo:
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=21194&start=1215
"I have been viewing this forum for a while and find it an interesting forum with some meaningful and interesting posts. I have a love-hate relationship with F1; love the racing but hate the politics and governing of F1. This is my experience of the relationship between McLaren and Honda. I have spent 40 years in the automotive racing arena with Toyo-Kogyo (Mazda), Honda Racing from 1983 to 1993 and then on to Toyota Racing. I was born and raised in Japan and have spent over 75% of my time working in Japan with the rest in the US and Europe. The relationship back then with Williams and McLaren were difficult at best and I imagine not much has changed today. How can you suddenly change cultural habits and methods. You don't. My nephew currently works for Honda Racing and although he is tight-lipped about his work, I can sense nothing has changed with regards to the working between Honda and McLaren.
The Japanese and British corporate culture is very different. I was a senior engineer and later a cost analysis engineer for Honda. I found McLaren to be more demanding and quick to lay blame more so than Williams. They wanted things now and they of all people should know that R and D doesn't happen that way. The Japanese are very proud and sometimes that is good and bad. Good in that they are determined to win "their way" and eventually they will succeed. Bad in that "their way" may not be the most efficient way to success. This energy recovery plus turbo electric boost technology is beyond my knowledge base. It seems very complex and Mercedes seems to have found the right blend in terms of power and reliability. I am confident Honda will get there. I know there are four basic tuning trims right now and they have been running at level 2 for the last two races. They are down about 90 HP in that trim in my opinion. I am told that level 4 trim should be equal or slightly higher than Mercedes' estimated output. Of course this is all hearsay and speculation.
I apologize for digressing but bottom line is that in my opinion only, both Honda and McLaren are both to blame for their frustration and lack of good communication. I think Arai-san will still be at head of the helm throughout the 2016 season and McLaren Honda will make big strides in terms of performance after the summer break. Gambare Alonso and Button-san!
"
Post adicional en respuesta a otro usuario:
"
Yes turbo1 I believe you hit the nail on the head! The rules set with regards to testing today makes it very difficult for quick progress. I can't imagine working for an F1 engine provider today. It is my understanding that Honda began serious design work of the PU in the 3rd quarter of 2013 with only about double the amount of resources (manpower and money) as their Indycar program. So they were really behind. Given that ICE specs are so rigid, (such as bore and stroke), combustion head design is critical. I am guessing (knowing Honda) that the engineers were told to tweak existing head designs for the F! rather than start from scratch. I agree that Honda is about 2 years behind in development work.
I don't know if I would say Honda is not optimally fitting for F1. We did rather well in the 80's and adapted quite well from going to the 1.5 L buzz bombs with turbos to the normally aspirated 3.5 L engine. Honda's culture is one slow start and fast changes. "Jyoki-kikansha" was a nickname for HRD, which means steam locomotive. The culture at least in my day was night and day between Honda and Toyota. Things for me at Toyota Racing was extremely painful with the bureaucracy and politics within the organization.
Honda's involvement back in F! has sparked my interest and I always have liked Button-san as a person and driver. It really is a shame that Alonso and Button don't have better cars. They both have paid their dues and need more pace and downforce in their machines.
"
Por cierto, en f1technical ha aparecido un usuario (un tal wazari) que dice haber trabajado para Honda en sus años de gloria y luego para Toyota Racing. También dice que su sobrino trabaja en Honda F1 pero que no suelta prenda del trabajo que hacen. No obstante según rumores parece haber cuatro niveles de potencia, que han estado usando el segundo las dos últimas carreras y él estima que este tendría unos 90 CV menos que el Mercedes. La cuarta supuestamente da la potencia estimada del Mercedes o un poco más. Valorad vosotros mismos que credibilidad le otorgáis, os pongo el post aquí abajo:
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=21194&start=1215
"I have been viewing this forum for a while and find it an interesting forum with some meaningful and interesting posts. I have a love-hate relationship with F1; love the racing but hate the politics and governing of F1. This is my experience of the relationship between McLaren and Honda. I have spent 40 years in the automotive racing arena with Toyo-Kogyo (Mazda), Honda Racing from 1983 to 1993 and then on to Toyota Racing. I was born and raised in Japan and have spent over 75% of my time working in Japan with the rest in the US and Europe. The relationship back then with Williams and McLaren were difficult at best and I imagine not much has changed today. How can you suddenly change cultural habits and methods. You don't. My nephew currently works for Honda Racing and although he is tight-lipped about his work, I can sense nothing has changed with regards to the working between Honda and McLaren.
The Japanese and British corporate culture is very different. I was a senior engineer and later a cost analysis engineer for Honda. I found McLaren to be more demanding and quick to lay blame more so than Williams. They wanted things now and they of all people should know that R and D doesn't happen that way. The Japanese are very proud and sometimes that is good and bad. Good in that they are determined to win "their way" and eventually they will succeed. Bad in that "their way" may not be the most efficient way to success. This energy recovery plus turbo electric boost technology is beyond my knowledge base. It seems very complex and Mercedes seems to have found the right blend in terms of power and reliability. I am confident Honda will get there. I know there are four basic tuning trims right now and they have been running at level 2 for the last two races. They are down about 90 HP in that trim in my opinion. I am told that level 4 trim should be equal or slightly higher than Mercedes' estimated output. Of course this is all hearsay and speculation.
I apologize for digressing but bottom line is that in my opinion only, both Honda and McLaren are both to blame for their frustration and lack of good communication. I think Arai-san will still be at head of the helm throughout the 2016 season and McLaren Honda will make big strides in terms of performance after the summer break. Gambare Alonso and Button-san!
"
Post adicional en respuesta a otro usuario:
"
Yes turbo1 I believe you hit the nail on the head! The rules set with regards to testing today makes it very difficult for quick progress. I can't imagine working for an F1 engine provider today. It is my understanding that Honda began serious design work of the PU in the 3rd quarter of 2013 with only about double the amount of resources (manpower and money) as their Indycar program. So they were really behind. Given that ICE specs are so rigid, (such as bore and stroke), combustion head design is critical. I am guessing (knowing Honda) that the engineers were told to tweak existing head designs for the F! rather than start from scratch. I agree that Honda is about 2 years behind in development work.
I don't know if I would say Honda is not optimally fitting for F1. We did rather well in the 80's and adapted quite well from going to the 1.5 L buzz bombs with turbos to the normally aspirated 3.5 L engine. Honda's culture is one slow start and fast changes. "Jyoki-kikansha" was a nickname for HRD, which means steam locomotive. The culture at least in my day was night and day between Honda and Toyota. Things for me at Toyota Racing was extremely painful with the bureaucracy and politics within the organization.
Honda's involvement back in F! has sparked my interest and I always have liked Button-san as a person and driver. It really is a shame that Alonso and Button don't have better cars. They both have paid their dues and need more pace and downforce in their machines.
"