(14-03-2017, 14:26)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:20)payoloco escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:13)Un aficionado escribió: No será fácil, No será rápido... pero ese Motor tiene que correr, es imposible que no lo haga aunque sea por chivatazo e intervención de Ross en devolución del euro robado...

Por qué 'es imposible'?

Es imposible porque es Honda, es que no me entra en la cabeza que prefieran retirarse de la F1 de nuevo sin ni siquiera poder hacer un motor, cuando se fueron la última vez, si mi memoria no me falla no era por que el motor no fuera potente...

(14-03-2017, 14:46)enrike hu fr escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:38)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:29)enrike hu fr escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:26)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:20)payoloco escribió: Por qué 'es imposible'?

Es imposible porque es Honda, es que no me entra en la cabeza que prefieran retirarse de la F1 de nuevo sin ni siquiera poder hacer un motor, cuando se fueron la última vez, si mi memoria no me falla no era por que el motor no fuera potente...

yo no he dicho ,ni pienso que Honda se retire  ,se dieron 5 años y siguen a su ritmo ,,

Su ritmo es rápido antes de la pretemporada muchos decían que si lograban alcanzar a Mercedes 2016 sería todo un logro... ahora que vemos el gran avance de Mercedes en 2017 ya no nos vale... Han estado dos años trabajando con 1 mano y casi han alcanzado coger a Mercedes 2016... demosles confianza y esperemos a ver como trabajan con las dos manos libres.

ok ,,,, no es por falta de confianza es por las declaraciones de sus dirigentes es decir Haseawa si hubieran sido otras seria diferente ,,en fin que afrontaremos esta temporada con ilusion y ganas de ver a Fernando en pista daran el màximo ,,eso no lo dudo ,,si es suficiente de la parte de Honda  ,no lo sé ,,pero aléé  no me gusta pasar por un pesimista porque no lo soy ,,,
si consiguen entender esa UP antes de septiembre ,serà posible que en 2018 puedan sacar la cabeza del agujero ,,
todos con Fernando ,,!!!!!!

(14-03-2017, 14:51)payoloco escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:26)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:20)payoloco escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:13)Un aficionado escribió: No será fácil, No será rápido... pero ese Motor tiene que correr, es imposible que no lo haga aunque sea por chivatazo e intervención de Ross en devolución del euro robado...

Por qué 'es imposible'?

Es imposible porque es Honda, es que no me entra en la cabeza que prefieran retirarse de la F1 de nuevo sin ni siquiera poder hacer un motor, cuando se fueron la última vez, si mi memoria no me falla no era por que el motor no fuera potente...

No hablo de que se retiren. 

Tu dices que es imposible que no hagan un motor que corra. Y te pregunto que por qué. Por qué 'tendría que ser imposible'. 


Cuando se fueron la última vez de la F1, por la puerta de atrás por cierto, era porque sus motores tanto los de la época V10 como los de la época V8 no paraban de romper. Cada 2 o 3 carreras máximo veías a un Honda (o a un Super Aguri) echando humo en plan barbacoa. En su última época en la F1 solo lograron una victoria con Button en 2006, y fue más fruto de la casualidad que otra cosa (aquella loca carrera de Hungría). 

Y sí, básicamente se fueron sin ni siquiera poder hacer un motor medianamente fiable. Correr corría, no era extraño ver a Takuma Sato rondando podio en muchas carreras, o el propio Button, que logró varios de hecho. 
Pero lo dicho, cada dos por tres barbacoa.

(14-03-2017, 11:48)mescaleno escribió: Muramasa en Autosport.
Si ya estaba posteado.....mil disculpas


Posted Yesterday, 20:05
========================

Test 1 summary article
 

dotted parts for Hasegawa quotes
 
https://sportiva.shu.../___split___f1/
2017.03.08


oil tank issue (on Day 1) timeline

- noticed the symptom on filming day
- during the Sunday night, Honda re-analyzed the baffle and took countermeasures and modified it at the venue
- it took long for analysis/redesign work, so they couldn't finish the countermeasure task in time for the beginning of Monday morning session
- so for the morning they decided to try sending the car out with unmodified tank
- after all it turned out that it was difficult to make running at racing speed
- therefore they decided to wait for the completion of the modification work (that's why they only made 1 lap in the morning)
- in the garage they were readying the PU with the modified tank being attached
- as posted before in another article, it took longer than expected to change PU because it's all new car all new PU
(info in the article)
 
(on oil tank issue) What's crucial about oil tank is internal config and baffle design, so if there is imbalance in there, you encounter problem that oil get stuck in one place/side of the tank by the effect of lateral G and longitudinal G and cannot be pumped up properly. It's something that can be dealt with by slight modifications, it's really not a big deal. It's something that can happen to any engines occasionally and it's nothing fundamental, but you have to dismantle PU from the car in order to fix it, so it takes long time for it unfortunately...
Oil tank is not conventional vertical cube type but Ω shaped to avoid the compressor which is mounted at the center of ICE. Therefore much consideration was put into the design but there was trivial mistake at terminal intake port. (info in the article)
 
 
 

(on the trouble at lap 29 in the morning of Day 2 of Test 1)
(Stoffel) reported that the car lost power suddenly on the way back to the pit. There was no sign of trouble on the telemetry, but Stoffel reported "lost power suddenly", so we examined the data and found out the power was actually dropping so we had him return to pit. Engine itself was running, but some cylinders were dead.
After the trouble we didn't do anything special like lowering output etc and continued to run as normal, but there was no issue. That the trouble has occurred is a headache, but it's only the PU in question that has broken down so quickly, so it's natural to consider that something irregular has happened.
 
 
 
Matt Morris quote:  This time's testing we conducted basic checking of the car, there is no parts that's showing unexpected behaviors, and we are able to increase the performance in fast corners. We could confirm that we are now emancipated from the issues we suffered from last year. Well, it was a slow start, and we merely made only one step tho.
 
We are able to complete the scheduled programs roughly, and make some recovery. We are not yet able to make durability verification like long runs, but we were able to consume testing plans like checking the car's basics and settings quite a lot. To be honest, I think everyone is making noise a bit too much just because we had some troubles at 2nd day.
We had an option to go for minor modification of last year's PU, but in such way it's impossible to step up to the next stage, so we are going into this season by revising everything from scratch, the consequence of which is this current situation. It's inevitable to suffer troubles having chosen to go offensive rather than defensive, so I take it positively.
we stumbled and fell down, and got injured in knees, but not sustained serious injury. We are not thinking like seriously injured at all. Just because something unfortunate happened in 2nd day, I dont think it's a big deal. The fact that we stumbled is shame, we are feeling bad for being unable to run as well, but it's no such thing that will make or break the entire season. What's truly concerning and crucial is how the level of our competitiveness will be as we progress the setup from now on.
(which one is more concerning/burdensome, reliability or lack of performance?) Of course performance, by tremendous margin. Regarding reliability you can overcome before too long. Still, you must not be disappointed at this stage already, and it's too early to say anything conclusive about result yet. I'm surprised by Renault's performance, but they may be light on fuel, may be under weight, etc, we can do something like that if we want to but we are concentrating on testing items so not going for lap time, so. Needless to say it would be encouraging to get P1 on the chart, but anyways we must work harder and harder.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
==========================
==========================

>>> Test 2 <<<
 
========================
Hasegawa quote for dotted parts
========================
 
 
DAY 1
 
http://f1sokuho.mopi...no=106683&tt=-1
2017年3月8日

- cause of trouble: electrical (according to "Honda")
- Spec is the same as last week's, but some modifications applied for the components that had trouble last week (info in the article)


 
========================
 
DAY 2

http://f1sokuho.mopi...no=106719&tt=-1
http://f1sokuho.mopi...no=106732&tt=-1
2017年3月9日
 
It is a fact that we have not been able to reach the original target power due to encountering various issues on dyno before entering the winter test. Regarding that, Alonso expressed his disappointment to us, and it is extremely shame for us Honda as well that we were not able to achieve our own target.
 
(on the PU introduced on Day 2 of Test 2)
Originally we were supposed to designate this PU as the spec to be introduced for Melbourne.
- Supposed to be used from Day 1 of Test 2, but its arrival to Barcelona got delayed because they were applying tentative measures to cope with the trouble that has occurred on Day 2 of Test 1. (info in the article)
 
 
Regarding the electrical issue (of Day 1 of Test 2), insulation malfunction has occurred, and what's suspected to be ground fault has happened. Current F1 cars are equipped with energy recovery systems hence high voltage electric current is flowing in it, so we have both cathode and anode isolated completely from the car. Ground fault happens if either electrode makes contact with the ground, but something like that can hardly happen with current F1 cars.
However, even if high voltage connectors are wrapped with insulation materials such as rubber, it comes to be the state of ground fault if it touches the ground. This time's trouble, it's not that it was completely short circuited, but it was merely giving a warning signal because the insulation resistance figure went below a certain threshold.
This sort of trouble can happen by slightest insulation malfunction, so it's not so difficult to repair actually, but finding the spot of malfunction is much more painstaking task, so we decided to replace the power unit as a whole.
 
At this very moment, we are undecided as to whether to use this PU at Melbourne or not. From now on, suppose the cause of the trouble that happened on Day 2 of Test 1 be identified, we will use this spec (introduced on Day 2 of test 2) as a foundation and do whatever it takes in order to improve the reliability until the last minute before Melbourne.
 
 
 
==========================
 
DAY 3
 
--------------------------------------
at about lunch time of Day 3:
http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/39197097
F1 journalist Dan Knutson in Barcelona: Yusuke Hasegawa, Honda’s Head of F1 Project & Executive Chief Engineer, has flown to Japan where he will be at Honda’s F1 factory in Sakura to personally oversee the work on the much-needed updates to the power unit.
-------------------------------------
 

 dotted parts for Hasegawa quote
(Hasegawa, who should be in airport or on a plane to Japan by that time, was somehow giving interview at Circuit de Catalunya at the end of Day 3)
 
http://f1sokuho.mopi...no=106757&tt=-1
2017年3月10日
 
Regarding driveability, we must work on it and improve/mature more and more. Drivers were reporting dissatisfaction especially on the behavior of shift change, saying the shift-up is too harsh.
 
At the end of the morning session we have encountered electrical related issues and stopped on track. We couldn't identify the cause, but it's got restored itself quickly so we sent the car out on track again, but it's come to a halt once again. After that we decided to exchange the whole electronics-related components.
(restarted running at 4pm, then at the end of the afternoon session it stopped again by electric shut down) It happened in Brazil FP session last year, the power shut down  and restored by itself immediately, so Stoffel were able to come back to the pit on his own. However, it was only 30min to go til session flag, so we finished the day of testing at that point.
Although we suffered from troubles, we were able to make aero evaluations and performance verification, so in terms of understanding the new car at least it was good testing session for us.
 
Driveability is extremely important. Improve the driveability and extract bit more power, then the car itself should come to decent level.
 
 
 
============================
 
Day 4
 
dotted parts for Hasegawa quotes
(Hasegawa, who should've been arriving at Sakura by then, was somehow still at Circuit de Catalunya giving interview at the end of Day 4 as well)

http://f1sokuho.mopi...no=106786&tt=-1
2017年3月11日

 
(first stoppage at 11:14, another stoppage at 11:52)
Electric related trouble has occurred again. Completely the same issue as yesterday's. I reckon that there was problem in the components that were left un-exchanged from yesterday.
 
During Day 3 (of Test 2), Honda changed ES. Trouble still persisted, so over night Honda decided to change the electronics related components of PU (info in the article)
We exchanged everything (of electrical related on PU side) to the components with proven reliability record that have been used already and encountered no issues in Day 1 and Day 2.
(Yet shutdown occurred again)
(on shut down issue during the run) It stopped immediately after hitting the bottom of the kerb at T9, so I guess that impact has to do with it.
(the context seems to be that reporters mentioned and asked if those electric issues were down to chassis side not PU side) Rather than the whereabouts of responsibility for the cause of the stoppage, it's shame that we as a team has lost the track time. But, I'd like to think positively, it's good that it didn't occur during GP weekend.
 
Alonso's time of 1m21.389sec wasn't that too bad if you think about when he set the time. It's not so common to set fastest time in the (early) evening. Had we not encountered the harness issues and been able to make attack lap around noon, perhaps we could've set better laptime.
But we are feeling enormous pressure (due to the current situation where they have only Sauber behind them)

(14-03-2017, 14:38)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:29)enrike hu fr escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:26)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:20)payoloco escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:13)Un aficionado escribió: No será fácil, No será rápido... pero ese Motor tiene que correr, es imposible que no lo haga aunque sea por chivatazo e intervención de Ross en devolución del euro robado...

Por qué 'es imposible'?

Es imposible porque es Honda, es que no me entra en la cabeza que prefieran retirarse de la F1 de nuevo sin ni siquiera poder hacer un motor, cuando se fueron la última vez, si mi memoria no me falla no era por que el motor no fuera potente...

yo no he dicho ,ni pienso que Honda se retire  ,se dieron 5 años y siguen a su ritmo ,,

Su ritmo es rápido antes de la pretemporada muchos decían que si lograban alcanzar a Mercedes 2016 sería todo un logro... ahora que vemos el gran avance de Mercedes en 2017 ya no nos vale... Han estado dos años trabajando con 1 mano y casi han alcanzado coger a Mercedes 2016... demosles confianza y esperemos a ver como trabajan con las dos manos libres.

(14-03-2017, 14:38)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:29)enrike hu fr escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:26)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:20)payoloco escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:13)Un aficionado escribió: No será fácil, No será rápido... pero ese Motor tiene que correr, es imposible que no lo haga aunque sea por chivatazo e intervención de Ross en devolución del euro robado...

Por qué 'es imposible'?

Es imposible porque es Honda, es que no me entra en la cabeza que prefieran retirarse de la F1 de nuevo sin ni siquiera poder hacer un motor, cuando se fueron la última vez, si mi memoria no me falla no era por que el motor no fuera potente...

yo no he dicho ,ni pienso que Honda se retire  ,se dieron 5 años y siguen a su ritmo ,,

Su ritmo es rápido antes de la pretemporada muchos decían que si lograban alcanzar a Mercedes 2016 sería todo un logro... ahora que vemos el gran avance de Mercedes en 2017 ya no nos vale... Han estado dos años trabajando con 1 mano y casi han alcanzado coger a Mercedes 2016... demosles confianza y esperemos a ver como trabajan con las dos manos libres.

(14-03-2017, 13:46)enrike hu fr escribió:

(14-03-2017, 13:16)Pili f1 escribió: nos vamos a quedar majaras,como esto no tenga alguna solución.........

lo de Honda ??? http://www.caranddriverthef1.com/formula1/formula1/2017/03/14/147479-honda-confirma-que-les-va-resultar-muy-dificil-encontrar-potenci

Honda confirma que les va a resultar muy difícil encontrar potencia

Hasegawa cree que los problemas que azotaron a sus motores en pretemporada no serán un problema, sin embargo, sí se muestra preocupado por la falta de potencia.
Por Sergio Martínez

(14-03-2017, 14:01)NachoBcn escribió: http://www.thebestf1.es/christian-horner-renault-ha-cumplido-sus-promesas/

Da rabia o no da rabia?

(14-03-2017, 14:57)payoloco escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:38)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:29)enrike hu fr escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:26)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:20)payoloco escribió: Por qué 'es imposible'?

Es imposible porque es Honda, es que no me entra en la cabeza que prefieran retirarse de la F1 de nuevo sin ni siquiera poder hacer un motor, cuando se fueron la última vez, si mi memoria no me falla no era por que el motor no fuera potente...

yo no he dicho ,ni pienso que Honda se retire  ,se dieron 5 años y siguen a su ritmo ,,

Su ritmo es rápido antes de la pretemporada muchos decían que si lograban alcanzar a Mercedes 2016 sería todo un logro... ahora que vemos el gran avance de Mercedes en 2017 ya no nos vale... Han estado dos años trabajando con 1 mano y casi han alcanzado coger a Mercedes 2016... demosles confianza y esperemos a ver como trabajan con las dos manos libres.

No es cuestión de darles confianza. Esto es F1. No se trata de abrazos y besos. Se trata de competir. 


Si tu te presentas a un concurso de halterofilia, y te pones a levantar peso, pues sabes a donde te metes. Si luego no puedes con el peso, y no puedes y no puedes, no vale que digas "bueno vale, dadme un poco de confianza no? ya lo levantaré algún dia!"

Esto es una competición. Y nos jugamos mucho. No puedes fallar. O no al menos una y otra vez. Y van 3.

(14-03-2017, 14:58)elruf escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:38)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:29)enrike hu fr escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:26)Un aficionado escribió:

(14-03-2017, 14:20)payoloco escribió: Por qué 'es imposible'?

Es imposible porque es Honda, es que no me entra en la cabeza que prefieran retirarse de la F1 de nuevo sin ni siquiera poder hacer un motor, cuando se fueron la última vez, si mi memoria no me falla no era por que el motor no fuera potente...

yo no he dicho ,ni pienso que Honda se retire  ,se dieron 5 años y siguen a su ritmo ,,

Su ritmo es rápido antes de la pretemporada muchos decían que si lograban alcanzar a Mercedes 2016 sería todo un logro... ahora que vemos el gran avance de Mercedes en 2017 ya no nos vale... Han estado dos años trabajando con 1 mano y casi han alcanzado coger a Mercedes 2016... demosles confianza y esperemos a ver como trabajan con las dos manos libres.

A mi me vais a perdonar pero lo de que casi han alcanzado a Mercedes 2016 no lo acabo de ver.